explosivecombat: (Rather strong physical disadvantages)
Solf J Kimblee ([personal profile] explosivecombat) wrote2015-01-19 07:16 pm

040. [Text/Action for Route 34]

[TEXT]

As a former soldier, I've had to consider and handle the question of when it's considered acceptable to take another life. It's hardly a question here, since in this world life is incredibly well-protected and death is incredibly cheap; however, seeing as this place hasn't just dissolved into an anarchic killing spree, it seems that most of us still have a basic grasp on morality as we understand it and are of the basic consensus that "murder is bad."

I suppose my question then is where the line is, for most of the people here, and where the difference lies between murder and self-defense. There's the obvious understanding that if someone is trying to kill you, you likely won't just stand there and let them do it; you're probably going to defend yourself or even fight back, no matter how much of a pacifist you are.

But surely there are places where the criteria becomes a bit more difficult to discern...? Say that you have two people drowning in the ocean; there's a plank nearby that will support the weight of one of them. Without use of the plank, both people will surely die. Person A gets there first, but Person B shoves them off, saving themselves but causing Person A to drown in the process.

Was what Person B did murder? Probably. But they were also going to die if they didn't do it – isn't that just another form of self-defense?

What if Person A fought back and was able to hold their position? That's self-defense, in all probability – but they're also deliberately ensuring the death of another person. Is Person A a murderer for doing so?

Does it matter? Either way, a person is dead because someone else valued their own life more. A life is over and somehow I doubt whatever words the living use to make themselves feel better matter much to the deceased.

...I suppose now is when I apologize for the morbidity of the subject matter, although honestly it seems I can't let a year pass in which I don't ask some sort of horribly inappropriate question about murder. I suppose I'm just getting it out of the way early this year.




[ACTION]

[...And in contrast to that self-admitted horribly inappropriate question about murder, Kimblee actually is doing rather well today; if anything, he seems pleased that the weather has broken and it was above freezing for a few blessed moments today, since that means he can actually go outside and not spend most of his time shut in the base. It's large enough to keep him from getting too worked up, but it's still windowless and claustrophobic and if he can be outside, then dammit, he will be outside.

He's just outside Goldenrod today; he's up on Acasta.

It's been a while since he's done anything from up on top of the Steelix – travel is one thing, but battle is another entirely, and he's got some of his other high-leveled Pokémon out with him for the sake of satisfying that latter desire; Acasta's up against Carlisle right now, and from the look of it, it's not so much Kimblee's job to command as it is to not fall right the hell off. But his balance is good and his gaze is incredibly focused, and from the sound of it, he's having a grand time – he's laughing quite a bit, and it's cold and there's entirely too much ice around and he's done this before and it was a good time then, too.

He manages to jump down when a well-timed Earthquake finally takes Acasta out, ensuring that he's well clear of the steelsnake when it falls; apparently he's not having fun unless everyone stands a great chance of dying, and today isn't much of an exception. At least he'll be unoccupied with battle for a while as he spends a while seeking out a Revive that he has somewhere on his person; whether he's going back up later or just doesn't want to leave Acasta unconscious is a bit hard to say, but either way he's around for conversation.]
sadisticwarfare: (♕ 08)

[personal profile] sadisticwarfare 2015-01-20 04:48 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not sure "afraid for my life" is an experience I need.
throatwash: (pic#8737333)

video;

[personal profile] throatwash 2015-01-20 04:49 am (UTC)(link)
Well... Murder is a word that defines killing as unlawful within certain legal parameters. The difference between murder and self defense, then, is criteria. So is the law based on collective morals, or are collective morals based on the law? It sounds pedantic, but because of the close association between the two, the argument is skewed to support self defense. Most people think unlawfulness is bad. Or in the case of murder, evil. Which classifies their will to survive as evil. That's difficult for many people to admit.

( what a punk. )
sadisticwarfare: (♕ 14)

[personal profile] sadisticwarfare 2015-01-20 04:51 am (UTC)(link)
[.........................]

...Fine, but only so you won't ask again.
sadisticwarfare: (♕ 10)

[personal profile] sadisticwarfare 2015-01-20 05:29 am (UTC)(link)
Yes.

[................]

Only because you're so insistent on it, of course!

[He's not interested, shut up.]
theotherother: (I Don't Know What's Going On Anymore)

[personal profile] theotherother 2015-01-20 05:55 am (UTC)(link)
It could be.

[He's not saying either way.]
evilfrenzy: (♟ can we not)

[text]

[personal profile] evilfrenzy 2015-01-20 06:21 am (UTC)(link)
I'm curious to know why we're considering the deceased's feelings on the matter in this hypothetical situation. Is there a point to it? They're deceased.

[...That probably says a lot about him right off the bat.]

But it is as you said, there isn't much use sugarcoating it by calling it self-defense or any of that. I imagine no matter what the survivor claims, someone out there is going to regard them differently for their actions.
aufsassig: BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES (CONTENT ★ blah blah minds like honey)

[personal profile] aufsassig 2015-01-20 07:26 am (UTC)(link)
Don't tell me. They held you back until they could come up with a justification for deploying you that would let 'em sleep at night?
aufsassig: preferably parcheesi but i will settle for go fish (PREDATORY ★ i want to play a game)

[personal profile] aufsassig 2015-01-20 07:46 am (UTC)(link)
[...son of a badword.]

Was the war keeping him in power or something?
crouching_sin: (hmph.)

[text]

[personal profile] crouching_sin 2015-01-20 08:08 am (UTC)(link)
The line between murder and self-defense is incredibly vague. From a legal standpoint, if you read laws, it looks more clear-cut, but in practice it almost never actually is. Even if someone seems to have a clear case for the former rather than the latter there's almost always someone willing to argue mitigating circumstances.

On your plank of Carneades question though, either person is technically a murderer, if you want to define murder as 'killing of another willfully'. Is it also self-defense? Almost definitely. The legal system would call it one or the other in order to assign a sentence, but ultimately it doesn't matter what anyone else says - it's something the survivor would carry with them for the rest of their life. The feelings of either the survivor or the deceased are ultimately inconsequential, because while the survivor might justify themselves they also know exactly what they did, and no amount of self-reassurance will change what's happened.

Humans live on the deaths of other things. Whether it's wood to build homes, animals to provide food, or other humans to provide whatever real or imagined resource that's gained from conflict, humans are creatures of self-preservation because humans are animals, and nature is an entire system of fighting to hold a position over some other form of life. Ultimately there's always some sort of life-form that's 'shoved off the plank' in order continue living.
glaciates: (EXCITED ❅ gonna ride a glacier brb)

[ACTION]

[personal profile] glaciates 2015-01-20 08:17 am (UTC)(link)
[Well, Kimblee's text is certainly something to think about, but Isaac's not really sure he wants to get into a discussion about this. It hits a little too close to home and even though he's been here for a long time, thinking about everything that happened back home still makes Isaac feel uncomfortable. There are things he's come to accept and come to terms with, but his own actions are still something that bother him. He can't help but wonder how things would have turned out if he had made different choices, even though he knows there's no changing what's already happened.

He's not about to have a crisis today, don't worry. He simply puts the thought aside and eventually seeks out Kimblee, just to talk about something stupid and superficial.

What he finds is Kimblee jumping majestically from a Steelix and wow, look at his super awesome boyfriend!!]


I really should get one of those. I don't have anything that awesome to ride into battle.
ossifragant: (θ i see the blood drip from your eyes)

action;

[personal profile] ossifragant 2015-01-20 10:50 pm (UTC)(link)
[For once, Greed really didn't have much of a response to Kimbley's question. His answer would have been simple enough: it's murder either way. For whatever reason, it struck him as a little boring; he didn't think he had much of value to add so he chose not to, instead briefly skimming over other responses before quickly moving on with his day and heading outside.

When he catches sight of Kimblee jumping off of a fainting Steelix, he's suddenly very grateful he decided to go for a walk today. Greed barks a laugh at the sight before walking up to Kimblee like this is the most normal thing in the world to see.]


Having fun today?
crouching_sin: (and this is crazy)

[personal profile] crouching_sin 2015-01-20 11:23 pm (UTC)(link)
I suppose I got carried away. It's a subject that's quite relevant to events in my world.

To put it simply, it's because humans have the capacity and tendency to feel guilt. Whether I personally see it as condemnation isn't relevant - but society in general would see any sort of killing as evil. Personally I don't feel like it's worthy of condemnation - in that situation it's perfectly understandable. In that moment, morality goes out the window in favor of survival.
crouching_sin: (they ain't gonna catch you when you fall)

[personal profile] crouching_sin 2015-01-20 11:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Exactly.

And what about you? Would you be the one to push the other sailor off?

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