explosivecombat | NIETZSCHE; DEAD PHILOSOPHERS' INBOX

Then I think it does make a difference. It's true that people will die either way, and in that sense one death isn't more morally acceptable or repugnant than any other, but I also think that focuses entirely on the ends, when there's room to take into consideration the means. There's a difference between a fast and clean — I suppose one word you might use is "humane", if death can be called that at all — death than one that's extended, drawn-out, or the result of torture. Yes, it's all still death, but there is on some level a difference as a consequence of the method.

Maybe it's a question of power. If being an alchemist is a state-sanctioned privilege for an elite few, then it stands to follow that there's a certain higher standard that ought to come with that privilege. In my world, it's a given among the nations considered most civilized that the ultimate sovereign authority lies in the people of a nation, and that it's only by their sanction that the government exists to serve them. It's an inherent contract, and it's the charge of the government not to abuse the powers it's been given, lest the people choose to throw off that government and create another more aligned with what they feel is right. To have the alchemists, an elite group of immensely powerful soldiers, answering only a handful of government officials whose word alone decides, effectively, the law...

There's more at play than just the death — that's what I think. Maybe the moral complications aren't in the death itself, but the death also doesn't occur in a vacuum, and that's where my reservations about it lie.

Admittedly, I'm not sure how I should take this notion that you would find the workings of my country - and myself by extension - to be "uncivilized" in comparison to yours; we've never placed the ultimate sovereign authority on the people as a whole, simply because that would be giving sovereign power to a rather large group who have absolutely no idea what to do with it. At risk of being redundant, our ruler has been trained specifically to rule the country; why should a great lot of people with no experience or training in ruling a country be given a say in how that country should be run?

I won't argue that a government should exist to serve its people, but being among those people isn't any sort of right; if anything, it's incredibly entitled to expect a country to change for you, and furthermore to assume that you know better than the person currently ruling it. We aren't forcing anyone to remain within our country's borders; if they dislike it so much here, then it makes infinitely more sense to go somewhere that they can find agreeable rather than demand that the government change entirely to suit their whims. Besides, if your government requires the constant threat of being overthrown in order to not abuse power and to actually make proper decisions for their people, I fail to see how that's more civilized than anything else. I suppose it's along the moral arguments that can be given on behalf of atheism - if a person needs the threat of hell or the promise of heaven to be a good person, then they really can't have been that good of a person to begin with.

I understand what you're saying in regards to the abuse of power, but it's using a scope of reference that simply doesn't exist in my world and seems unnecessarily lofty besides.

Edited (grammar why) 2013-06-19 09:13 (UTC)

I wasn't calling you or your country uncivilized. On the contrary, my assumption that you utilized some form of democracy was founded on the basis that you are civilized, and where I'm from that's generally indicative of a democratic nation. I was clarifying where that assumption came from, that's all.

Remind me someday to explain my system of government to you properly; I'd rather not try to do it piece by piece like this, and risk running into a lot of misconceptions and clarifications along the way when it's simpler to start at the beginning and go straight through from there. Suffice to say, it's complicated — but we're not really talking about the government, outside of the fact that I used it as an example in an attempt to articulate what I think is morally repugnant about exploding someone with alchemy versus killing them a different way. The point is that we agree on the aspect of the abuse of power; the rest is largely tangential arguments.

I said that I could understand what you were saying, not necessarily that I agree with it; what you're providing is a purely intellectual viewpoint on killing and war - and while I won't say that such things have no place in discussion, nor will I say there's no merit behind them, somehow I doubt the individuals actively being slaughtered on a field of battle will pause to consider whether or not they're being victimized by some sort of abuse of power.

That's why I believe it doesn't matter, in the end.

Edited (...punctuation.) 2013-06-20 07:21 (UTC)

And yet a person turned into a slow-acting walking time bomb will have more time to pause and contemplate any number of horrors than one who dies in a different way, won't they? To say nothing of the fact that it might make plenty of difference to the survivors, or to the civilian people whose government is allowing and implicitly condoning those actions in the first place.

But I honestly don't want to debate killing and war with you. I answered because you asked for my thoughts, but my thoughts are my own, and no matter how entitled I am to them, that doesn't mean I'm justified in pontificating on a subject that I really have no right to speak with authority about.

Arguably, war and killing are topics that no one should pontificate on; I've heard many who would presumably be considered justified in doing so that really shouldn't have opened their mouths in the first place, what they had to offer was so unproductive.

However, I'm willing to respect your unwillingness to discuss it, as it were - though justified or not, I do appreciate your answering the question to begin with. As you said, I did ask, after all.

No wonder I like you. You're occasionally considerate.

I would appreciate that knowledge not reaching the general public; I do have a reputation to maintain and all.

I wouldn't worry. As insufferable as you can be at times, you're still my secret.

You really do like toying with that rhetorical audience of ours, don't you?

Not really.

But it's better than being frustrated with you.

Arguably, this relationship of ours wouldn't exist were it not for the occasional bout of frustration, would it?

Admittedly, "frustration" may be too light a term for what it was when it started, but you get the idea.

The occasional bout of frustration is fine — just like the occasional hardship is healthy in helping someone learn and grow.

But they do say too much of something isn't good for you.

I've never really had a good eye for moderation, from what I've been told.

I've also been told it's a tremendous character flaw, though I've never seen it as such. To each their own, really.

To be fair, there's likewise a saying: everything in moderation — including moderation.

You know that's just begging me to ask about your vices, don't you?

Fortunate that I'm not opposed to discussing them, then. What, exactly, are you wanting to ask?

Do you have any relatively mundane ones?

I specify only because I'm not particularly in the market for a resurrection of discussions of war casualties and unpleasant ways to die.

Well, since coming here I seem to have picked up quite the gambling habit, though I don't know how much that counts as a vice because apparently my luck is nigh-on godly when it comes to slots. If anything, the casino floor is one of the few places where my luck isn't awful; otherwise, it ranges from "fairly bad" to "oh, that's just unfortunate, isn't it."

When I was younger, I tended to drink quite a bit; during that period of time after my recruitment into the military but before I actually saw combat, I tended to go out to bars quite a bit. I don't drink at all at this point, however; I'm aware that I don't have any restraint, and I prefer to have my wits about me nowadays.

I can't live without caffeine, and require at least two cups of black coffee before anyone can even talk to me in the morning. I'm incredibly vain and have certain things I have to do regarding my appearance before seeing anyone. Apparently I overspend when I'm stressed; if I'm not overspending, I'm overworking myself.

There are others, really, though they fall more under the category of bad habits than vices.

Rich, hardworking, well-groomed, and a teetotaler-slash-coffee addict. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were trying to provoke me into setting off our rhetorical audience again.

If that's how you'd like to see all of that, then believe me, I certainly won't stop you.

Anything else you're curious about?

For the record, it's the vanity I find the most refreshing.

You were going to tell me your favorite Pokemon at some point, weren't you?

I don't have a favorite as far as species themselves go, really; if I had to choose one, however, I'd say Ninetales - I'm rather partial to one I raised.

Was it your starter?

No, but I had him for so long that he might as well have been; he was one I purchased shortly after I arrived here the first time.

He was horribly spoiled; he had a tendency to steal things like chocolate from me, and he whined incessantly for quite some time after he evolved because I refused to pick him up due to the change in size. But he was also loyal to no one but me, he was strong in battle and generally a decent source of protection and companionship, even if he would complain about being expected to offer said protection if it meant waking him up.

I think you should've picked him up anyway.

Did you lose him, the way you and your best friend lost your cats?

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