explosivecombat | NIETZSCHE; DEAD PHILOSOPHERS' INBOX

Given that you told me you use those languages to get by in at least twenty nations, if not more, I would genuinely hope you know more than sweet nothings.

But I wouldn't expect such things anyway; as I've said, I've never been much of a romantic.

Or maybe I'm just very popular in those twenty nations.

[CARMEN.]

And I'm more interested in your teachings than your nothings, anyway. Are you planning to tell me where to start on my path to enlightenment, or is my first lesson to find it on my own?

[HANG ON, HANG ON, HOW DARE YOU MAKE HIM LAUGH AT THAT - ]

If you're looking for enlightenment, then you're coming to the wrong person. For the time being, however, consider it a bit of both; tell me where you think an acceptable starting point would be, and I'll give you a direction - is there anything in particular you would like to start with, based on what you already know?

Can I turn lead into gold?

If you would like to waste your potential, then I don't see why not.

After all, those laws aren't in place here.

You can't fault me for paying homage to tradition.

[Also, wow, way to play her like a dime-store kazoo, Kimblee.]

What would be a goal more in line with my potential, then?

Give me some time to consider, and I'll see if I have any recommendations for you.

In the meantime, however, I'll let you know now that while I see no reason to not break laws like teaching you how to turn lead into gold, there is one thing I absolutely won't help you do, regardless of any reasons you may present to do it - I don't do human transmutation, nor will I teach anyone else how to do it.

No resurrecting the dead, no artificially creating humans, no creating chimeras, and absolutely nothing involving the manipulation of anyone's soul. There are many, many reasons why I won't touch any of that.

Why would you even think I would want to?!

If you think I'm implying you would have some sort of dark, sinister purpose for this sort of thing then you're mistaken - you would be surprised at what people will do through desperation. Resurrecting the dead is something that people tend to find appealing for a number of reasons, for example; bear in mind that I don't know what your life has been like outside of the bits and pieces you've shown me.

Is that a common reason to pursue alchemy? The hopes of restoring the dead to life?

There's no amount of desperation in the world that could make me turn to something like that as an end.

I wouldn't say it's necessarily a common reason, no, but it's enough of a concern for it to be stated to those starting out.

That said, however, it's good to know that you wouldn't be interested in an attempt; I've never seen it attempted and done properly by any normal alchemist to date, but I've heard more than enough horror stories to last me quite some time. Human transmutation is an abomination, and it's treated as such by the forces of the world itself - attempting to resurrect the dead is highly dangerous for the alchemist that's trying to do it, and it's not unheard of for limbs and organs to be lost in the best-case scenario. In the worst-case scenario, you would lose your life.

The primary reason for this, however, is also the reason why the attempt is futile in the first place - there comes a point after one dies, when one's soul can't be called back to the world of the living. After that point, it's passed through something we call the Gate.

What lies beyond the Gate is unknowable; some like to think of it as Heaven, some think it's some other sort of afterlife, some believe that our souls merge with God - I couldn't tell you, myself. But the point is that there's no returning from beyond the Gate; as little as I believe in charity or assisting people beyond what's necessary, it would be a shame to see you mutilated or killed in the pursuit of a goal I know to be impossible.

Abomination is the word I would've used, myself. Side effects and dangers aside, there's something inherently abhorrent about tampering with life and death that way. I know the extent of my arrogance and I'm rarely one to turn down the opportunity to pursue knowledge for the sake of the chase, but there's a line beyond which even the pursuit of knowledge shouldn't go, and playing god with powers never intended for mankind's hands is well on the other side of it.

Interesting that you should word that last sentence that way; as you seem to appreciate knowledge for knowledge's sake, I imagine you won't mind my explaining things about the world I come from once in a while, as it relates to the topic - and if you do mind, I apologize in advance for the tangent. But in the country I originate from, most believe alchemy to be the result of scientific progress, not any sort of magical power. A progression much like the technology of this world, really, not unlike the device we're using to communicate now.

However, there's a race of people within that nation who believe the entire practice - not just the act of human transmutation, but alchemy itself - to be an abomination, for religious reasons. They believe it to be a defiance of the Earth God and creator deity, Ishvala; it's seen as hubris, implying that humans see themselves as superior creators to even the gods themselves and that they can improve upon the natural gifts they've been given.

In other words, practicing alchemy at all is seen by that particular race as playing god, with powers never intended for mankind's hands; for the rest of us, it's simply progress. However, "playing god" is still the official reason cited by the government for why human transmutation is illegal in the first place.

You've told me about this particular race before, haven't you? They're the ones you don't like.

[Understatement of the century.]

Every world has cultures that object on religious grounds to what others see as the necessary progress of science. I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs. But my perspective is more in line with your country's — from what little I understand of alchemy, it can sometimes be put to use as simply a very efficient method of completing a task you could've done a longer, more involved way anyway. I think that's where the difference lies, at least somewhat: is what you're doing something that would be within the realm of human possibility anyway, through other means, or is it a pursuit that nature abhors.

But thus speaks the student with none of the background and experience of her teacher.

They are, yes; however, I don't hold those particular beliefs against them - religion is apparently an important part of their identity as a culture, and in a way it would be disappointing if they were to abandon that simply because someone told them to. If doctrine were to change - perhaps through divine revelation given to them through their Supreme Cleric, perhaps as a consensus come to by the people themselves - that's one thing; buckling under pressure to change one's beliefs is another thing entirely. So I'm more than capable of respecting their beliefs, even if I disagree with them on a fundamental level.

You are correct, however, at least in some ways - however, alchemy can be used to create "miracles," so to speak. I believe I've told you in the past that my own continued survival is the result of one of those alchemical miracles. The definition of "what nature abhors" is also a bit broad - the taking of limbs and organs that I mentioned is called a rebound, and the act of creation tends to cause them more than the act of destruction.

I assume you're more interested in that aspect, by the way - creation, as opposed to pure destruction.

I can't think of much that I want to see destroyed, it's true.

Is it only the resurrection of the dead that takes limbs and organs, or are there other forms of creation that seize them as well? If it's a matter of equivalence, as you've told me before, then it seems as though anything sufficiently large enough might demand such an equally high cost, but surely you must have some idea of where the line roughly falls.

Well, alchemy adheres to a few laws of its own, different from the life-concepts or the laws of mankind; these are the laws of the world as a whole. The most important of these laws make up the structure of what we refer to as Equivalent Exchange.

Equivalent Exchange mandates that we can't create something from nothing, nor can we destroy so thoroughly that something is rendered into nothing. "Creation," as alchemy goes, is a bit of a misleading term - it might help to not think of transmutations as being strictly a means to create/destroy, but rather a way to turn one thing into another. To use the most common example, you're creating gold by sacrificing lead. If you try to create more gold than you have lead to sacrifice, that's when you're going to get a rebound.

The reason the resurrection of the dead invariably causes a rebound is due to the alchemist trying to create a human soul from insufficient materials; souls are invaluable and can't be created through artificial means, no matter how much you have in terms of physical materials. At least, I'm fairly sure that's the reasoning behind it.

Basically, as long as you have enough materials to balance out what you're trying to create, you should be fine. Of course, there are other forms of transmutations that work a bit differently, but those also adhere to Equivalent Exchange in their own way.

And you said there's a point at which the human soul can't be redeemed, no matter the price paid, so at that point even the offer of a soul in exchange would be futile.

But what if the hypothetical alchemist were able to reach the soul in question before that point — assuming there's such a thing at all? The alchemist by definition must have a soul herself. And if there's any sort of delay between the point of death and the point of irredeemability...then in theory at least, it should be possible for a committed enough alchemist with extraordinarily good timing to trade herself to resurrect another, soul and all, isn't it? At the expense of her own body and soul herself?

I won't get into the possibility of resurrecting bodies intentionally devoid of their souls, but given what you've described, that ought to also be an available option, shouldn't it. Not a palatable one by any means, perhaps, but theoretically possible, again.

Before I answer, I would like to make it clear now that anything I tell you in regards to this is purely theoretical in nature. I've had some things explained to me by someone far more skilled than I in this particular area of study, but he wasn't a teacher - he was the last individual, before I came here, to wield me as his weapon, and some knowledge of this sort of thing was necessary for what I would ultimately be required to do. However, I'll be the first to admit that the full potential of what can be done with one's soul is still a bit beyond me in some ways.

But as far as I understand it, what you're describing is entirely possible in theory, assuming that the soul had some sort of container that it could be placed in. This can be done via the usage of blood crests; it's not unheard of for it to be done that way, anyway, though it's an incredibly dangerous process and illegal besides due to those human transmutation laws we've discussed.

However, if she had some sort of container prepared, or if the body of the person in question hadn't taken a sufficient amount of damage or could be alchemically repaired to a point where it wouldn't just die immediately upon being reanimated, then what your hypothetical alchemist would want to do would be to inscribe a blood crest on the container to start the transmutation, then activate the array. The result of that should bring the alchemist before the Gate - all human transmutations end in a confrontation with a being known as Truth, whom I suppose is best described as the gatekeeper to God's domain. Truth is a sentient being; he can be spoken to, and should the alchemist be determined or clever enough, he can be bargained with.

Assuming, at that point, that the soul of the deceased has not already passed beyond the Gate, Truth should accept the soul of the alchemist in question in exchange for the soul of the deceased, which should be returned to the container inscribed with the blood crest.

...I think that's how it works, anyway.

Edited 2013-05-23 04:31 (UTC)

Rest assured, it's not a theory I'd ever want to test for myself. But part of understanding means exploring the hypothetical questions raised by the unaddressed aspects of the structures you're creating.

But Truth as a sentient being? One that can be bargained with? That seems...

It's not a concept I've heard before, let's put it that way.

It seems most haven't. I wouldn't suggest trying to bargain with him in any way, though, even if it is possible - from what I understand, Truth's idea of bargaining is being talked down from "taking all of your vital organs" to "taking a lung and both kidneys, along with your right leg up to the thigh, and calling it a day."

...At the risk of stating the obvious: some bargain that is.

Is that only a hazard in creation alchemy? If a rebound occurs for not having sufficient materials to create the thing you're attempting, destruction alchemy seems as though it'd be free of that particular concern — since you're not really creating anything, but simply changing the form of the existing thing you intend to destroy, correct?

There are certainly rebounds that can be caused by destructive alchemy as well; if anything, sometimes the limits are harder to see when it comes to alchemy that's intended to destroy. Again, this depends on the method one is intending to use - sometimes it's simply changing forms, yes, but that isn't how most choose to do it.

Wouldn't that be easiest? If I wanted to level a building, why wouldn't I just alchemize it into a pile of its component materials?

[...WOMAN...]

And how many individuals do you know that happen to have the knowledge of chemistry required to pull that off, consistently, with everything they might happen to want to destroy?

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