035. [ANON TEXT]

[explosivecombat]

[Well, good evening, network - it seems Seth's device is active again, though at the very least he's not inviting everyone to war like he's throwing the world's most unasked-for party this time around.]

You know, one of the things I've always found most fascinating about human morality is the idea that we're higher beings due to our natural inclination to put others before ourselves. It's generally accepted in society that we should be willing to sacrifice ourselves before harming another; I've always found adhering to that sort of notion to both vaguely admirable and sickeningly saccharine. If you must kill one to save another, that's still a life that's lost; why shouldn't the reward go to the one who's willing to fight for it, rather than the one who did nothing to earn it but sit there in pious devotion to doing nothing wrong?

We claim superiority for suppressing our instincts to survive; if anything, I think that would put us lower than dogs, not above them. All this intelligence and no will to live; it's pitiful.

But then, I suppose my lack of understanding of these things is why I can't be considered one of you.

For the time being, however, say I were to humor you in discussion for a while. Do you think your will to fight to ensure your survival actually needs to be tested? Since I suspect the answer will overwhelmingly be "No," I have another pre-emptive question for the heroic types.

Is there anything outside of arrogance and so-called moral superiority that makes you say so?

[...O...kay that's really not any better but apparently, it's just that kind of night.

You know, full of misanthropy.

Because some nights are like that.]

Comments

[anonymous text forever]

[explosivecombat]

[Yes, yes. You came out to have a good time and you're honestly feeling so attacked right now.]

The way I've worded things doesn't disallow for that third class of people - the reason for their death really doesn't matter, in the end. You're no less dead if you die in the name of trying to assert some sort of moral superiority. Maybe you'll get a nicer funeral, but it's a bit hard to appreciate that from six feet underground.

As for why I posted it, I don't know that that's any of your business. I like seeing people's reactions - I think that's enough for you.

[glaciates]

So the only thing that matters to you is the survival aspect, not what was done before the person's death. That's not to say survival isn't important, but you're painting everything in black and white when there's more to it than that.

Say a person knows they're going to die; they have a disease or something and there's no possible way to cure it. So they know they're going to die and there's nothing that can be done about it. Would you say that it's important for them to stay alive as long as possible?

These questions aren't sarcastic, I genuinely want to know how you think.

[It's not because he thinks he'll be able to figure out who Seth is, it's more because this is so ridiculous he wants to see what logic there is behind it.]

[explosivecombat]

[...that is a surprisingly good question, actually.]

You can ask me whatever questions you like. I don't mind them, and I wouldn't be here if I weren't prepared for my own viewpoint to be challenged along with yours.

In that case, I personally find it unacceptable to do otherwise.

[glaciates]

Okay, so I'm assuming if this hypothetical person was in a situation where they could save another person at the cost of their own life, you'd say that it's important for them to live, even if they will eventually die.

What if they know when they're going to die? What if it's in six months? What if it's in a day? Is it still important for them to live instead of someone else?

[explosivecombat]

It depends on the rationale behind the action.

[glaciates]

How so?

[explosivecombat]

There's a difference between throwing your life away in some way because you believe it would be futile to do otherwise, and saving someone at the expense of your own life because you believe that they will be more beneficial alive than dead.

The difference between recklessness and pragmatism matters in this sort of circumstance, as far as I'm concerned.

[glaciates]

Or they could be less of an asshole and genuinely want the person they're saving to keep living. But I'm guessing you wouldn't approve of the action then, would you?

[explosivecombat]

If they're more valuable to you alive than dead, then that's beneficial in your opinion. Just because I don't approve of it doesn't mean it's not a valid course of action.

[glaciates]

Alright, but you can at least acknowledge why someone would do something like that. So it's not hard to see why people would get upset at the questions you posed.

[...]

Unless that's what you were trying to do; get everyone riled up for some reason.

[explosivecombat]

Maybe. Or maybe it's for the sake of discussions like this.

[glaciates]

Why? By now you've probably gotten a lot of other responses that are all telling you why you're wrong. Why would you want to get involved in something like that?

[...Maybe he's a masochist.]

[explosivecombat]

Like I said, I like seeing others' reactions.

[glaciates]

So do you genuinely believe what you're saying or is this just to get a reaction out of people?

[explosivecombat]

Whether I believe it or not doesn't matter. I'm not in any position to judge others when it comes to things like this, anyway.

[glaciates]

The entire message seemed to be judging everyone who would act differently than you.

[explosivecombat]

The thing about hypothetical situations like this is that you never fully know how you're going to choose to act until it leaves the realm of theory and becomes real. I'm not so naive to think that everything will fall the way I want it to. I have my own beliefs regarding these things, but I also admit that sometimes life just doesn't work out that way.

[glaciates]

I'm sure you've seen a lot of people who say they'd act differently. It's possible they'd end up acting like you instead of holding up their ideals, yeah. But it's also possible that even people like you could find a situation where you'd put someone else's well-being over your own. I can't actually see you doing it, but I'm sure there are people like you who have been in that sort of situation.

It's not all black and white, which is the impression I got from your original message. So I guess it's good to know you're considering all situations.

[explosivecombat]

I've been tested that way myself already, actually, and the hypothetical situation you gave me earlier was how.

[glaciates]

Really?

[Well that's... the last thing he expected, hang on.]

What did you end up doing?

[explosivecombat]

The example you gave wasn't perfect, but the effect was the same - I was living on borrowed time, and eventually something was going to finish me off. What the condition was is very world-specific so I'm not going to give details, but for simplicity's sake you can assume that if things progressed to their natural conclusion I would have been dead in a very brief period of time.

I was given the choice to see things through to the end - something that would have been easy and quite frankly pleasant for me, because while I may have been dying I wasn't suffering - or to save someone who was going to be useful in carrying out the goals I had wanted to see through.

It was for purely mercenary reasons, and I also had some personal objections to the continued use of what was keeping me alive. But I chose to save the individual and die rather than to try to prolong my own existence.

[glaciates]

[He's not sure what he was expecting but it was definitely not that.]

The person you saved wasn't someone you genuinely cared about then, it was just someone who could continue to do what you couldn't. Still, the fact that you chose to do something like that isn't what I would have expected.

[explosivecombat]

There you have it, then. You learned something today. Well done.

[glaciates]

I'm sure you have plenty of other responses to get back to. This conversation was interesting if nothing else.

[HE'S NOT SURE HOW TO FEEL ABOUT IT, TBH...]

[explosivecombat]

It's unsettling for you when your targets become people, isn't it?