035. [ANON TEXT]

[explosivecombat]

[Well, good evening, network - it seems Seth's device is active again, though at the very least he's not inviting everyone to war like he's throwing the world's most unasked-for party this time around.]

You know, one of the things I've always found most fascinating about human morality is the idea that we're higher beings due to our natural inclination to put others before ourselves. It's generally accepted in society that we should be willing to sacrifice ourselves before harming another; I've always found adhering to that sort of notion to both vaguely admirable and sickeningly saccharine. If you must kill one to save another, that's still a life that's lost; why shouldn't the reward go to the one who's willing to fight for it, rather than the one who did nothing to earn it but sit there in pious devotion to doing nothing wrong?

We claim superiority for suppressing our instincts to survive; if anything, I think that would put us lower than dogs, not above them. All this intelligence and no will to live; it's pitiful.

But then, I suppose my lack of understanding of these things is why I can't be considered one of you.

For the time being, however, say I were to humor you in discussion for a while. Do you think your will to fight to ensure your survival actually needs to be tested? Since I suspect the answer will overwhelmingly be "No," I have another pre-emptive question for the heroic types.

Is there anything outside of arrogance and so-called moral superiority that makes you say so?

[...O...kay that's really not any better but apparently, it's just that kind of night.

You know, full of misanthropy.

Because some nights are like that.]

Comments

text;

[ossifragant]

I'm not the best person to talk about things like humanity. I've watched humans for a long time form this sort of pattern of either accepting things for what they are or violently rebelling. Complacency seems to be the easiest thing for most people. Ignoring the things that bother them, because they're either smart enough to be selfish or stupid enough tho think that bad things can't happen to them.

If someone wants to test my will to continue surviving, they're welcome to. I really don't care. I can't do as much here as I could back in my own world but that really doesn't matter because I'll still fight them if it comes to that.

Then again, I'm not one of the heroic types you're addressing.

I'm no more special than the rest of the masses that get sent to the slaughter in the end. The only difference between me and them is I have the skills to back up my talk. That, and I don't suppress my instincts.

anon text forever

[explosivecombat]

Acknowledging that you're no more special than the rest actually sets you ahead of them, from what I've seen. Even those who are smart enough to be selfish are stupid enough to think that'll save them.

I won't claim to be better than anyone else. I'm skilled and I'm useful, but I'm not particularly special. What sets me apart is the intelligence to admit that, and the willingness to put my very existence on the line in everything I do - because I don't see the point in doing otherwise, to put it bluntly.

[berkthorn]

I think you have living confused with surviving.

Where I'm from, there were times when it was kill or be killed, but we learned that it didn't have to be that way. We adapted, and things are easier now. People are happier. Even if war can't be avoided, you can fight and still try to avoid killing anyone. They deserve to live just as much as you do.

[anon text forever]

[explosivecombat]

So by your logic, people "deserve to live" on merit of existing at all. Is that it?

[berkthorn]

I suppose so. But it's not just people. With a little effort, we can all coexist.

[ossifragant]

Believe me, I know very well that there's nothing out there that would save me. That goes without saying. Coming here may have changed the course of fate but it's not a permanent thing.

I could go on about it but it's not exactly that interesting.

I understand completely. It's what I've done before, it's what I'll continue to do. If you're afraid to die, what's the point?

[explosivecombat]

Exactly. Though perhaps I'm biased by merit of having already done it once.

Twice, if we're going to be technical.

[explosivecombat]

And if that were at all true, war and conflict would have ceased to exist years ago.

Provide humanity with enough calm, and a storm will appear eventually.

[text]

[beholdmydemons]

[Every fucking time. Hello, there.]

Needs is a strong word, but when humans get by without being tested their humanity seeps out of them. You don't need me to tell you that, though.

[anon text forever]

[explosivecombat]

How would you define "humanity," in the context you just used it in? Oblige me for a moment.

[ossifragant]

I was about to, if it matters.

Intentionally so. Couldn't tell you exactly how it happened, but that hardly matters because I don't regret it.

I've never been afraid to die to begin with, though. Maybe that's my problem. Pretty hard to think about how special the lives of the masses are when your own survival means that they all come second to you.

It's kind of like a house of cards when you get right down to it. Someone has to step over someone else. It's the nature of the game.

[berkthorn]

That's true. Everyone has their own experiences, and can use those to justify their actions. Sometimes to others, and sometimes only to themselves.

Pride, anger, and fear can be terrible things. They make people lash out, try to rule... They make you think nothing can change. I've seen that it can though, and I know that if enough people gave it a chance instead of being afraid of it, we'd have peace. Ideas spread, so you just need to put the right ones out there.

[text]

[me_first]

what an interesting question! i would say that it does, but cloudbank didn't have very many opportunities for that. very few people ever left.

[explosivecombat]

The lives of the masses have never mattered to me simply because they're so willing to have someone else save them. If they don't care enough to save themselves, or are for some reason unable to save themselves, I don't see why I should bother to do so of my own accord.

[explosivecombat]

And that's all incredibly idealistic and failing to take actual human nature into account.

But I'd like to hear what you consider these "right ideas" to be. For curiosity's sake, if nothing else.

[anon text forever]

[explosivecombat]

And if it did, would you take those particular opportunities?

[ossifragant]

You shouldn't. They deserve whatever happens to them. It's that simple.

We might be in the minority, thinking like that here. But to be honest I really don't care.

[text]

[me_first]

i suppose i would. though i'm afraid i'd likely not do so well. i'm not particularly athletic.

anon text;

[adnihilum]

I suppose this notion is a price to pay for stabilizing larger colonies of humans.

Practical in densely populated situations, but not all the time.

[beholdmydemons]

You said not fighting puts us below dogs, didn't you?

[Hang on. He needs to put some thought into this.]

Humans made gods, so humans can kill them. Giving over your fate to gods doesn't make you righteous, it just leaves you weak.

[...where "gods" also means "your circumstances in general" but he still hasn't completely embraced that distinction.]

[explosivecombat]

Given that you've just said you don't care about their lives, I would be surprised if you cared at all about their opinions.

[explosivecombat]

...Do you want to try that again, only making it relevant to the conversation this time?

[beholdmydemons]

What do you mean?

[explosivecombat]

There are other strengths to be had outside of physical prowess, you know, and I'm not going to claim they aren't valid.

anon text forever

[explosivecombat]

[...CHILD DID YOU JUST LITERALLY SUGGEST THE PLOT OF SOYLENT GREEN AS A LEGITIMATE OPTION]

Well, that's certainly the sort of thing I wouldn't suggest ever saying to anyone's face, but I suppose that's a fair enough point.